07/09 09:47
00:00:00 Court resumes at session.
00:00:02 Thanks, everybody.
00:00:02 Please be seated.
00:00:03 All right, folks, we are on record in the Kroenke and Treasure chest matter, 3 a.m.
00:00:12 20-08622.
00:00:13 Civil parties and counsel are present.
00:00:19 Adam Clark has given you a copy of the seating chart, so you know where we're going to seat everybody based upon the numbers of the jurors.
00:00:28 Are we ready to proceed?
00:00:31 Yes, sir.
00:00:32 Absolutely.
00:00:34 She's sitting in the second row.
00:00:37 So, Madam Clerk, let me just make sure I'm clear because we've got four on the front.
00:00:40 So, we're going to leave them down front.
00:00:42 I think if you've already done it.
00:00:55 Thank you for the seating chart, Madam Clerk.
00:00:57 Yeah, let's just... Yeah, I think given the number that we've got with 14, we'll put them in the box, but just leave one chair open on the far right.
00:01:12 Your numbers will match up with four if we take one off the floor.
00:01:27 In fact, why don't we just roll one over the corner and that way we're good.
00:01:42 Ah yes, the minutia of trial.
00:01:50 Are we ready for the panel?
00:01:52 Seth Kroenke v Treasure Chest LLC
00:02:22 Yeah, they mess up their line order and don't like a chair.
00:03:13 Good morning, everyone.
00:03:33 Good morning, folks.
00:03:34 I didn't realize it was going to be like kindergarten today.
00:03:39 We get you all lined up, and you have to come in in order.
00:03:41 All right, thank you, everyone.
00:03:52 Please be seated.
00:03:57 So, good morning and welcome to Superior court.
00:04:00 You have all been some of his prospective jurors in a case entitled Seth Kroenke v Treasure Chest LLC and Randy Elliott.
00:04:08 It's case number 3AN20-08622Civil.
00:04:13 This is a civil case.
00:04:14 It is not a criminal case.
00:04:16 My name is Tom Matthews.
00:04:17 I'm the judge assigned to this case.
00:04:19 I want to welcome you here this morning to select a jury for this trial.
00:04:23 Before we begin, I want to thank you all in advance for your service.
00:04:27 Our judicial system truly could not function without you, and we appreciate you being here to perform this civic duty.
00:04:33 If you are selected today, I believe you will find it to be a positive experience.
00:04:38 We're going to begin by having the attorneys introduce themselves and their clients.
00:04:42 The plaintiff will go first and will also let you know who they anticipate calling as witnesses.
00:04:47 The defendants will then do the same thing.
00:04:49 Please raise your hand, folks, if you recognize any of the names, and we'll ask you about those in a moment.
00:04:55 So Mr. Kroenke is represented by Martin Brzezinski and Michael Bedinger of the law firm Jones Bedinger.
00:05:02 Mr. Brzezinski, would you like to introduce yourself and your client?
00:05:06 Yes, of course.
00:05:06 My name is Martin Brzezinski, and along with Mike Bedinger, we represent Mr. Seth Kroenke.
00:05:12 And I apologize for mispronouncing the name.
00:05:15 I will try not to do that again.
00:05:17 and Mr. Campion is here representing Treasure chest LLC and Randy Elliott Mr. Campion if you would introduce yourself ladies and gentlemen my name is Clinton Campion along with my client here Randy Elliott the owner of treasure chest LLC we're the defendants in this case all right thank you all so ladies and gentlemen in a moment we're going to begin by selecting the trial jury in this case it's an important stage in a trial because it's important for both sides to have a fair and impartial jury
00:05:43 In this case, we're going to be selecting 12 jurors and two alternates.
00:05:48 The parties are entitled to jurors who can approach this case with an open mind and who agree to keep open minds until reaching a verdict.
00:05:56 You, the jurors, must be as free as possible from bias, prejudice, or sympathy and must not be influenced by preconceived ideas, either as to the facts or the law.
00:06:07 Therefore, the attorneys for the plaintiff and the defendant will have an opportunity to ask you some questions.
00:06:12 These questions are not designed to pry into your personal affairs, but are to discover if you have knowledge or preconceived ideas about this case.
00:06:20 There may be times when the questioning may touch on an area that you would rather not discuss in front of a room full of people.
00:06:26 If that happens, just let me know and we can handle those questions in private.
00:06:30 So if you feel uncomfortable about answering any question in public, just let me know.
00:06:34 We'll take a break at an appropriate time to conduct questioning outside in private.
00:06:40 At times I may also decide that some questions should be answered in private.
00:06:44 It is extremely important that you answer all questions honestly.
00:06:50 I now want to tell you just a little bit about what this case is about.
00:06:53 This dispute involves a contract dispute relating to gold mining.
00:06:57 Seth Kroenke and Randy Elliott first met each other in April of 2020.
00:07:01 Elliott and his company Treasure Chest LLC owned mining claims in the Dan Creek area near McCarthy.
00:07:09 Mr. Kroenke was a contractor based out of Palmer and he was interested in either investing or purchasing a mining opportunity in the area so they entered into two agreements in the summer of 2020 to explore the possibilities these two agreements form the heart of the dispute in this case and you will hear evidence about them you will also hear evidence about how they went about performing their obligations under the agreements and also about the disagreements that ensued
00:07:36 There are many differences between the parties, as you will hear if you were selected to hear the case.
00:07:41 Ultimately, the jury's role is to decide what the facts are.
00:07:44 I will tell you much more about that later.
00:07:48 Let me tell you a little bit about our trial process.
00:07:50 This case is scheduled to last for about five or six days, meaning it's going to go into early next week.
00:07:56 I recognize that at least one of you has travel plans for the following weekend.
00:08:00 I don't anticipate this case will run that long, so that shouldn't pose a problem for you.
00:08:07 Our trial days will typically begin at 8.30 in the morning and end at 1.30 Monday through Thursday.
00:08:14 On Fridays, the trial day will begin at 8.30 and end at 12 noon.
00:08:19 There may be times when I have to address a different matter or I have issues to address with the lawyers before we can take evidence for the day
00:08:26 So you can plan, I will let you know before you leave each day what time you should return for the next day.
00:08:32 However, once you retire to deliberate, you will be required to deliberate all day until a verdict is reached.
00:08:39 We take breaks during the trial day, usually about every hour to hour and a half.
00:08:43 We will not take a lunch hour, but you are welcome to bring food or snacks with you while you eat in the jury room.
00:08:49 You are also welcome to bring coffee, soda, or water into the courtroom to drink them here.
00:08:54 I will ask you to leave food in the jury room.
00:08:57 During deliberations, the court system will provide lunch for the jurors.
00:09:01 I realize that jury service requires each member of the panel to make personal sacrifices.
00:09:06 You will be away from your homes, family, or place of work during the day.
00:09:10 So in just a moment, I will ask you whether you have an emergency or personal hardship or problem in your life that would prohibit you from serving on this jury.
00:09:18 I bring this up now to give you time to think about it.
00:09:21 Please be aware that I am using the words emergency and personal hardship deliberately and carefully.
00:09:27 I'm not talking about inconvenience because all jury members will experience some inconvenience.
00:09:33 If you are selected for questioning and want to discuss a personal emergency or hardship, please let me know.
00:09:39 I expect the jury selection will take the rest of this morning.
00:09:43 So with that in mind, is there anybody that has an immediate emergency that I need to address right now?
00:09:50 seeing no hands go up okay because your answers need to be as honest as possible I need to administer an oath to all of you if you would please stand and raise your right hand I'm going to give you an oath do each of you solemnly swear or affirm that you will truthfully answer all questions you are asked about your qualifications to serve as jurors in the case now before the court
00:10:18 I see nods and yeses.
00:10:19 Thank you, everybody.
00:10:20 Please be seated.
00:10:23 Our state law also requires certain qualifications to determine whether you are eligible to be a juror, so I'm going to ask you a series of questions.
00:10:37 Please raise your hand if your answer is yes to any of the following questions.
00:10:43 Is there anyone here who is not a citizen of the United States?
00:10:49 Is there anyone who is not a resident of the state of Alaska?
00:10:54 Is there anyone who is under 18 years of age?
00:11:00 Is there anyone on the panel who is not of sound mind at this time?
00:11:06 Is there anyone who is not in possession of your natural faculties?
00:11:10 That includes anything that would affect your ability to understand what's happening in court and to communicate with your fellow jurors.
00:11:20 Is there anyone who cannot read or speak the English language?
00:11:26 Is there anyone who has been convicted of a felony who has not been unconditionally discharged from probation and parole?
00:11:34 Is there anyone who has served as a juror in Alaska within the last year?
00:11:40 I see no yes answers or hands up to any of those questions, so ladies and gentlemen, thank you.
00:11:45 You are all qualified to serve on this jury.
00:11:50 Now I'm going to give the attorneys an opportunity to ask you some questions.
00:11:54 Remember that there is no right or wrong answer to these questions and the questions asked by the attorneys.
00:12:00 There are only truthful answers.
00:12:02 All of us have strong feelings about certain things and it's important that you answer all of the questions as openly as possible.
00:12:09 We're going to begin with the plaintiff's side.
00:12:11 Mr. Brzezinski.
00:12:18 My name is Martin Brzezinski, and along with Mike Benger, as you heard, I represent Mr. Kroenke.
00:12:23 One of the things I'd like to do is get your names right.
00:12:26 So if I mispronounce your name, please correct me.
00:12:29 And please keep correcting me until I get it right.
00:12:33 This is the only chance that we're going to have to speak with each other.
00:12:37 If you're selected, you're going to sit on the jury, you're going to listen to witnesses, and you're going to render a decision.
00:12:42 But this is a process where we can actually communicate back and forth.
00:12:46 So what I'd like to do is instead of calling in people and making it like school, I'd like to ask questions of the entire panel and then I'd focus on an individual.
00:12:54 If I'm speaking with one person and somebody else has something that they feel they'd like to share that adds to the question, please feel free to do so.
00:13:04 You don't have to raise your hand.
00:13:05 You don't have to be embarrassed.
00:13:07 There are absolutely no right or wrong answers.
00:13:10 We're here just to get an idea of who you are,
00:13:14 So really, there are no right or wrong answers.
00:13:21 You don't have to be worried about that.
00:13:24 And as the judge said, if a question comes up that you don't feel comfortable in answering amongst all of you, let me know and we can approach the bench and we can do it in private.
00:13:37 You can also ask me questions.
00:13:43 I know the judge already asked you, but I'd still like to sort of follow up.
00:13:45 Does anyone have a physical condition that would prevent you from being comfortable sitting for six hours, five, six hours a day?
00:13:55 Great.
00:13:57 Anyone have any – is anyone taking any medication that doesn't make you feel well or would prevent you from being comfortable in a courtroom?
00:14:05 Yes, ma'am.
00:14:06 You are Ms.
00:14:07 Yamat?
00:14:07 Yeah.
00:14:08 Am I pronouncing your name correctly?
00:14:13 Are you okay?
00:14:13 Do you need to... Is that today?
00:14:16 Yeah.
00:14:16 And what time is that, ma'am?
00:14:17 8 o'clock this morning?
00:14:20 Yeah.
00:14:20 But I just postponed it.
00:14:46 I apologize.
00:14:48 Let me double check.
00:14:49 So did you miss an appointment or did you reschedule it?
00:14:53 Okay, and are you please feel free to sit down ma'am.
00:14:57 I want you to be comfortable
00:15:13 are you feeling physically okay now or is it just the appointment that you need to make sure you get to tomorrow at this point or and in
00:15:41 I don't mean to be personal, but I need to make sure that you can sit through this process.
00:15:47 Given your health condition, do you have concern about that?
00:15:50 No problem.
00:15:53 Mr. Kemp?
00:15:53 Would you approach counsel?
00:15:56 I think given what she said, I'm inclined to .
00:16:10 So, Ms.
00:16:11 Yamat, I'm going to thank you for your service.
00:16:13 Given your situation, we want to make sure your health is most important, so we're going to go ahead and let you go for the day, okay?
00:16:21 So, no, you don't need to be sorry.
00:16:23 That's the reason we have this questioning process.
00:16:25 We want to make sure that jurors are both qualified but also able to serve.
00:16:30 So, thank you very much, and we'll dismiss you from this jury.
00:16:49 Thank you.
00:16:51 Last preliminary question.
00:16:54 Due to individual religious beliefs, is there anyone amongst you who feels unable to or uncomfortable sitting in the judgment of someone else?
00:17:04 Yes, ma'am.
00:17:04 You are Ms.?
00:17:05 Hinojosa.
00:17:06 Hinojosa?
00:17:07 Okay.
00:17:08 And please explain.
00:17:09 I just – you've got to take people's word and like who to believe.
00:17:18 I don't know.
00:17:18 That's a lot of pressure.
00:17:21 Is that something that you think you can do, or you think that it's no matter what evidence is presented, you're not going to be able to do that, or it's going to cause you personal stress?
00:17:34 I think I can do it.
00:17:36 Okay.
00:17:38 And it's just a personal stress.
00:17:40 It's not a religious belief.
00:17:41 Yeah, I just had a lot of anxiety.
00:17:43 I'm just super anxious.
00:17:45 Okay.
00:17:46 And is that something that you're going to be okay with if you're sitting for five days and you are listening to people state their opinion and give evidence?
00:17:57 I think so.
00:17:59 Okay.
00:18:00 All right.
00:18:01 If it changes while we're speaking, please let us know.
00:18:03 Okay.
00:18:04 Anyone else?
00:18:05 This is a perfect example why it's great that everybody chime in.
00:18:09 Okay.
00:18:12 Who amongst you watches lawyer shows on TV?
00:18:16 Okay, why do we watch them?
00:18:18 Mr. Holub?
00:18:20 Holub.
00:18:20 Holub.
00:18:21 You, sir.
00:18:22 I find them quite entertaining, to be honest.
00:18:26 Yeah, they just capture my attention.
00:18:29 So entertaining, any other reasons?
00:18:33 I think Ms.
00:18:33 Hedge, you had your hand up?
00:18:38 No, you didn't, okay.
00:18:40 Well, we're going to be sadly disappointed if we're not entertaining.
00:18:47 We'll try our best.
00:18:48 Mr. Halub, you're in the military, is that correct?
00:18:51 Yes, sir.
00:18:52 What do you do in the military?
00:18:53 Architecture work.
00:18:54 Mr. Brzezinski, I'm going to pause you for a moment.
00:18:56 So, folks, I want to make sure that we can hear everything because we're making a record of this.
00:19:01 We've got a portable microphone over there in front of Ms.
00:19:04 Hinojosa.
00:19:08 Yeah, if we could.
00:19:09 Is it on?
00:19:12 Hang on a second.
00:19:12 Well, let's make sure we get it turned on and we're just going to play the game called Pass the Mic.
00:19:17 Madam Clerk will help.
00:19:25 Should have done that to begin with.
00:19:26 I apologize, folks.
00:19:32 It's like the price is right.
00:19:37 Mr. Halliburton, construction.
00:19:39 Yes, sir.
00:19:40 What do you do in construction?
00:19:42 Everything from drywall patching to concrete work to locksmithing to windows, kind of the jack-of-all-trades master and un-deal.
00:19:51 What branch are you in?
00:19:52 Air Force, sir.
00:20:00 Now, from reading your questionnaires, I see that several of you have been on juries before.
00:20:06 And civil and criminal or just criminals?
00:20:10 Just criminal for me.
00:20:12 Anyone else?
00:20:15 I'm sorry?
00:20:16 Criminal Anyone has been on a civil jury?
00:20:19 Okay.
00:20:20 So, in criminal court, there's a different standard of proof.
00:20:25 And since you are jurors, you've heard about beyond and to exclusion of all reasonable doubt.
00:20:31 That's the highest standard we have in our judicial system.
00:20:36 It's really hard to say what is it, 99%?
00:20:37 Is it 99.9%?
00:20:41 No one knows.
00:20:42 It just says that if you have an abiding reason that something doesn't sit right with you or you have an abiding doubt, then that is not enough to meet that burden.
00:20:55 So we're in civil court.
00:20:56 The standard is different.
00:20:57 We are in the preponderance of evidence standard.
00:21:00 So if you imagine the old-fashioned scales that you see pictures of, because I don't think any of you have actually used them that long ago, and they just sort of balance and you put things on one side and it tilts.
00:21:12 So the proponents of the evidence standard is the plaintiff, us.
00:21:16 We have to present just enough evidence to ever so slightly tip that scale.
00:21:22 Some people say it's 50%.
00:21:23 It's 50% plus a particle of dust, just a little bit less.
00:21:28 Is everybody comfortable with that standard?
00:21:31 Does anybody think that should be something else?
00:21:35 Okay.
00:21:36 And feel free to chime in.
00:21:40 So I'm not forced to point my finger and ask questions.
00:21:45 For those of you who are on a criminal jury, were you able to reach a verdict?
00:21:50 And Madame Verbrugge?
00:21:53 Verbrugge.
00:21:53 Verbrugge.
00:21:54 I'm sorry.
00:21:54 I was trying so hard.
00:21:58 They declared a mistrial right before closing arguments.
00:22:01 Okay.
00:22:03 And Miss Belli, you are on a jury as well.
00:22:08 And were you able to reach a verdict?
00:22:10 Okay.
00:22:12 Was that in the state of Alaska?
00:22:13 Yes, sir.
00:22:14 And how long ago was that?
00:22:15 It was in 2016.
00:22:19 Anything about that experience that sits with you today and makes you uncomfortable in the courtroom?
00:22:29 It will be different.
00:22:31 Yes.
00:22:34 But you had no issues of reaching a verdict, working with others?
00:22:38 No.
00:22:39 Okay.
00:22:40 It looks like you're going to say something and then you just went with no.
00:22:44 Tell us more.
00:22:53 In this case, are we going to be in a room secluded and then come to... Yes.
00:23:02 I imagine very much so like in a criminal case.
00:23:04 You'll be deliberating in a jury deliberation room by yourselves, separate from everybody else.
00:23:09 Okay, that's the only questions that I have.
00:23:11 And you're okay with that?
00:23:12 Yes, sir.
00:23:13 Okay.
00:23:13 Who else was on a jury?
00:23:15 I saw, ah, we have two more people.
00:23:19 Ms.
00:23:19 Frazier, am I pronouncing it correctly?
00:23:21 Yes.
00:23:23 And were you able to reach a verdict?
00:23:25 Yes.
00:23:26 And was that in Alaska?
00:23:27 Yes.
00:23:27 Okay.
00:23:28 And anything about that case that would make you question what we're doing or be uncomfortable here?
00:23:34 No.
00:23:35 Not at all?
00:23:36 No.
00:23:36 Excellent.
00:23:37 And then we have Ms.
00:23:37 Nelson.
00:23:39 And same questions to you.
00:23:40 Were you able to reach a verdict?
00:23:41 Yes.
00:23:42 I served in Washington State, and it was many, many, many years ago, mainly DUIs.
00:23:49 So I served for like a week, but I was on several juries, and we did reach verdicts.
00:23:55 And anything about that that would make you uncomfortable being here?
00:23:59 No.
00:23:59 It was many years ago.
00:24:01 Thank you so much.
00:24:04 Now, this case about gold mining.
00:24:06 Has anybody been gold mining?
00:24:09 Has anybody been involved in a goldmine?
00:24:12 Has anybody had a relative or a friend involved in a goldmine?
00:24:15 Ah, I'll be all new for everybody.
00:24:18 Pilots.
00:24:18 Do we have any pilots on the panel?
00:24:22 Any spouses or friends who are pilots?
00:24:26 Ah, Mr. Schrage?
00:24:28 Schrage.
00:24:30 Okay.
00:24:32 You are a pilot?
00:24:33 Do you have a friend who's a pilot?
00:24:34 One of my dads.
00:24:35 Your dad.
00:24:35 So obviously you fly with your dad a lot.
00:24:39 And that's here in Anchorage, Alaska?
00:24:41 Yes.
00:24:42 Okay.
00:24:44 How often do you fly?
00:24:46 I'd say upwards of 10 times a year.
00:24:50 Okay.
00:24:51 You enjoy it?
00:24:52 Yes.
00:24:52 All right.
00:24:54 How long has your dad been flying?
00:24:57 He has been flying for 30... 31 years.
00:25:03 That's impressive.
00:25:05 Anyone else?
00:25:06 Oh, that's Miss...
00:25:09 Trawicki.
00:25:10 Did I get that right?
00:25:10 Okay.
00:25:13 If I'm not, let me know.
00:25:15 And you were saying you fly as well?
00:25:16 I do not fly.
00:25:17 I have relatives in France that fly.
00:25:19 And that's locally?
00:25:20 Some locally and some out of state.
00:25:24 Okay.
00:25:26 Now, some of you are business owners.
00:25:30 Is anyone involved as part of their job where they're
00:25:37 keeping business records, doing accounting, purchasing, accounts receivable, anything like that.
00:25:47 Justin Soucy Soucy, thank you for pronouncing your name, sir.
00:25:52 Yeah, I work for, actually, I like some bug questions.
00:25:54 I work for an aircraft charter company and handle accounting questions and billing and scheduling and
00:26:11 Do you actually do the accounting or you're just the person who deals with the problems?
00:26:17 Okay.
00:26:21 Do you deal with reimbursements of expenses for employees or costs of that sort?
00:26:27 Yes.
00:26:29 Is that a large part of your job?
00:26:40 And how long have you been in this particular career?
00:26:48 How does your reimbursement program work at your company?
00:26:59 So in order for an employee to be reimbursed, what do they have to do?
00:27:06 It's not very official.
00:27:11 We used to have forms that would have to be submitted, but those have kind of gone by the wayside.
00:27:15 They submit their flight logs, and with those flight logs, they're submitting their receipts, whether they're used to company cards or any kind of personal funds.
00:27:28 And they're usually reimbursed.
00:27:32 Okay, so just basically submitting receipts for things that are business related.
00:27:37 Okay.
00:27:42 Is anyone involved in maintaining business records?
00:27:51 Who, now I understand from your questionnaires that several of you own your own businesses.
00:28:00 Anyone own a business?
00:28:02 That must have been one of the jurors who was... Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see your hand.
00:28:08 I apologize.
00:28:09 Ms.
00:28:09 Reeves?
00:28:10 Okay, and what business do you own, ma'am?
00:28:15 Tell me about that, please.
00:28:16 And I'm sorry, what do you deliver?
00:28:18 I just didn't hear you apologize.
00:28:21 Oh, okay.
00:28:32 And is that a full time?
00:28:36 And do you just, how does your business work?
00:28:39 Do people order through you, then you purchase it, or is it ready at Costco and you just pick it up and deliver it?
00:28:43 For the most part, I do have company cards that I deal with businesses with, and I submit all the receipts to each company.
00:28:56 And in order to be reimbursed, you have to submit all the receipts?
00:28:59 Yes.
00:29:04 And what happens if you lose your receipts?
00:29:08 You have to go back and get them.
00:29:16 So obviously if you didn't go back, you would not get reimbursed.
00:29:22 Now in this case, we're going to have an expert witness.
00:29:28 Has anybody
00:29:30 Ever been an expert witness in your profession?
00:29:33 Anyone has ever worked with an expert witness?
00:29:37 I'm not sure if what I do qualifies, but I have, maybe.
00:29:40 Please.
00:29:42 I'm a toxicologist and I work for, I've worked for both state and federal government and sometimes the work that I do, you know, comes through court of law and I'm called as a witness, but I'm not, I've never been a paid expert witness, just been a witness who's an expert.
00:29:59 So how often have you... That's a great example.
00:30:04 How often do you testify in court, madam?
00:30:06 Oh, gosh, probably once every 10 years, not very often.
00:30:09 Oh, so you're not like a crime scene tech where you're in every week.
00:30:14 That's my husband.
00:30:14 That's your husband?
00:30:15 My husband is here all the time.
00:30:16 Okay.
00:30:18 You're not a professional witness.
00:30:19 No.
00:30:21 So an expert witness is someone who has...
00:30:26 experience, knowledge, and training in a particular field and can offer their advice to clarify an issue.
00:30:32 Can anybody think of a reason why an expert witness would be necessary?
00:30:38 Ms.
00:30:38 Verbrugge.
00:30:39 Differences of opinion about something that's technical that needs to be explained to the jury.
00:30:48 And while this is a sort of a gimme question for you because you are an expert who's a witness,
00:30:56 Do you think that's a helpful thing to have?
00:31:00 Sometimes that's probably essential, yeah.
00:31:03 So if there's two individuals who have vastly different opinions about the quality of something or the value of something or even the color of something, does anybody feel that hearing from an expert wouldn't be beneficial?
00:31:17 Does anyone think that I don't believe experts or experts really aren't what they're cracked out to be?
00:31:24 I think people should be able to decide without an expert.
00:31:29 Anyone?
00:31:46 Has anyone been involved in a partnership?
00:31:52 Ah, Miss Belly.
00:31:54 Can you explain that, or tell me about that, please?
00:32:04 For 14 years, my ex-husband and I were partners in a home business.
00:32:12 What kind of a business was it, ma'am?
00:32:14 A dealership.
00:32:18 Utility traders.
00:32:20 Utility traders?
00:32:22 Traders.
00:32:23 Oh, you're dealing with trailers.
00:32:25 I'm sorry.
00:32:25 Okay.
00:32:27 So you, did you build them or did you just sell them?
00:32:33 Okay.
00:32:36 And in your partnership, who did the accounting and the bookkeeping?
00:32:41 Okay.
00:32:43 And you weren't involved in that at all?
00:32:45 Okay.
00:32:48 And I take it you're not in that industry anymore?
00:32:50 No, sir.
00:32:53 Anyone else who has worked with someone else as a partner or collaboration?
00:32:59 Ah, Mr. Halu.
00:33:02 From a legal standpoint, my father has an LLC, which my name is attached to, but as far as anything to do with that, I have nothing.
00:33:09 Okay.
00:33:23 I think outside of Mr. Susi, am I pronouncing it correctly?
00:33:27 Is anyone else in a position or in a business that you have to submit expenses or expense reports or receipts?
00:33:39 Obviously you are.
00:33:39 And then Ms.
00:33:41 Wright.
00:33:41 That's an easy one.
00:33:43 Tell me, please.
00:33:44 I'm in advertising, so I take clients out for coffee or lunch or things like that, so those would be receipts I
00:33:56 And I know this is a silly question, so you just put your receipts together, you write down which client, and you submit them?
00:34:02 Forms to fill out, and then put the date and the receipt attached, and a brief description of what it is.
00:34:10 And then submit it to accounting, and they reimburse you pretty much.
00:34:14 And if you don't have receipts, what happens?
00:34:18 It depends.
00:34:20 I've always had them, so I don't know.
00:34:23 I guess you'd probably ask for us to get other receipts if they did.
00:34:26 Okay.
00:34:28 So how long have you been in this, in this, with this company?
00:34:32 Oh, with the current company that I'm at, almost two years.
00:34:36 Okay.
00:34:36 And before that, you were in the same field?
00:34:39 Yes.
00:34:39 I worked with KTBA, CBS affiliate, and then went away.
00:34:45 I was there for 20 years.
00:34:48 And I'm sure you had client entertainment expenses there as well.
00:34:51 Exactly.
00:34:51 And you went through the same process of receipts and reimbursement.
00:34:54 Okay.
00:35:00 This may sound like a silly question, but why do you think receipts are important?
00:35:03 Why don't just your employers just trust you?
00:35:06 It's proof of your transaction, I guess, shows what you did.
00:35:15 Sometimes it's office supplies and sometimes it's lunches or coffee.
00:35:22 Okay, and how often are you entertaining clients?
00:35:28 So since you're not taking out for people for coffee, it's affecting this Reeves business.
00:35:59 Ms.
00:35:59 Verbrugge, you also entertain clients or?
00:36:04 Oh no, it's only reimbursement for travel expenses, so whenever I travel for business purposes and they are sticklers.
00:36:14 They are sticklers?
00:36:15 We have very, in the government, we have to be very accountable to
00:36:21 to be on the up-and-up.
00:36:23 And you know, you're just, yep.
00:36:26 Mr. Holub shaking his head.
00:36:27 And the auditors are all over everything.
00:36:30 So what do you have to do to get reimbursed?
00:36:33 I need to have receipts, and then there's a system that we put in for reimbursement after we return from travel.
00:36:40 We have to submit all the receipts.
00:36:42 And I imagine, as a toxicologist, you're a very detail-oriented person, so this probably doesn't apply to you, but have you ever made a mistake on your...
00:36:51 Reimbursement forms?
00:36:52 Never.
00:36:53 Sometimes there might be, someone might question whether something is reimbursable and you might have a little discussion about that and you might not always come out on top.
00:37:05 But the government can be a stickler.
00:37:06 Ms.
00:37:06 Holub, Mr. Holub, do you have to submit expenses to the military?
00:37:10 So there are certain instances where when we PCS, TDY,
00:37:15 And for those of us who are not in the military, go ahead and tell us about PCS.
00:37:19 Pretty much your permanent move of station to go from one location to another, TDY would be like a temporary duty, and then that deployment would be a task to go for six months to a different location.
00:37:30 It could be anywhere.
00:37:32 Receipts do need to be tracked for that as well in order for reimbursement to occur.
00:37:37 And if you do not have those receipts, there's a very, very low chance that you will ever see that money get back to you.
00:37:44 And you've experienced that?
00:37:47 Yes.
00:37:47 I'm sorry to hear that.
00:37:51 Ms.
00:37:52 Hinojosa, did I get that right?
00:37:53 Hinojosa?
00:37:55 Hinojosa?
00:37:56 Okay, so the first H is completely silent.
00:37:58 Hinojosa, excellent.
00:37:59 What do you do for Costco?
00:38:01 Two-day grocery.
00:38:02 It's a new department.
00:38:04 Tell me about that.
00:38:04 I'm not familiar with that.
00:38:05 I've been shopping at Costco my whole life, but I don't know that one.
00:38:08 You can put in an order online, and we'll box it up for you, and you'll get it at your doorstep within two days through FedEx.
00:38:18 Fantastic.
00:38:18 And that's here at DeBar and Diamond?
00:38:21 The Business Center.
00:38:22 Oh, the Business Center.
00:38:23 Okay.
00:38:24 Is that just for businesses or for laypeople like me?
00:38:26 No, everybody can go in there.
00:38:27 Oh, excellent.
00:38:28 And how long have you been with Costco?
00:38:31 18, 19 years.
00:38:33 Ah, so you have benefited from their great stock.
00:38:38 And has that, before this new program came in, what did you do with Costco?
00:38:43 I was special orders, and that was also shopping and palletizing and wrapping the boards and stuff like that.
00:38:51 So I imagine that your job requires significant attention to detail as well.
00:38:59 And what happens when your details get out of whack?
00:39:11 And obviously that never happens at Costco because it's a great company So miss, you know, so Are you feeling okay?
00:39:23 I just want to check back with you make sure that since we were chatting This is not driving anxiety through the roof Okay, and if any moment you're not just raise your hand and we'll figure it out.
00:39:33 I
00:39:44 So thank you very much for letting me speak with you.
00:39:48 And I know that we've covered everyone's health issues and travel schedules and medical issues, but I do want to touch on a very important item here.
00:39:58 This trial is extremely important to our client, Seth Kroenke.
00:40:04 This case has been years in the making.
00:40:06 It's been a long road to get here.
00:40:11 So please excuse me, but I'm going to ask you to think and look at yourselves and think about your schedules and let me know if there's anything in your life that would prevent you from giving this case 100% of your attention.
00:40:26 And it could be something as simple as your dog is alone or you don't have the right kind of care for your children.
00:40:34 Whatever in your life, if there's something in your life that's going to pull your attention away from this case, I'd like to know about it.
00:40:42 Any one of you has anything?
00:40:43 Yes, Ms.
00:40:44 Reeves.
00:40:44 I have a lot of pets, and it's just me and my husband.
00:40:48 My husband works full time, and I check in on our pets.
00:40:52 And by a lot, I mean six dogs, three cats, and three goats, so.
00:40:57 You have a zoo.
00:40:58 I have a zoo.
00:41:01 And how often do you check in your cats?
00:41:03 Every three to four hours, I'm checking in.
00:41:05 Okay.
00:41:07 So if you are seated in this
00:41:10 and you're here from start at 8.30 as the judge said so 8.15 or so and it goes to 1.30 you probably won't get home until 2 is that a hardship that you're going to be facing I would say yes because then I would have every day I would come home to goats out and about or lots of messes in my home it's an inconvenience yes but the goat is out and about yes goat
00:41:39 And how do they get out and about?
00:41:40 They like to climb out of my property.
00:41:44 And eat everything.
00:41:45 And eat everything.
00:41:46 Okay.
00:41:48 So you have to check on them to make sure they're not out and about socializing the neighborhood.
00:41:53 And they're good fed because that's the one thing that keeps them sane is feeding them.
00:42:00 I sympathize because I have a meadow for a front yard and we employ a team of goats every year in August to come in and eat our yard.
00:42:09 And yes, they get out and about very quickly.
00:42:12 Anyone else?
00:42:15 Ms.
00:42:15 Hinojosa?
00:42:16 um i have food allergies i'm allergic to wheat and last night i went out to eat and i i thought i have rice noodles after a mouthful of eating wheat noodles i was told that they were ramen oh i'm sorry they took it from me um and i'm usually sick for about a week after that six days and the only thing that that i think might affect is i get brain fog and i can't concentrate all the time when i'm
00:42:48 So, and once again, if you'd like to talk about this at the bench, we're more than happy to do so.
00:42:53 I don't mean to put you on the spot.
00:42:54 It's clearly a health issue for you.
00:42:57 How often does that happen to you?
00:42:59 Do you think in the next six or seven days you will have an episode of brain fog?
00:43:05 I haven't I feel fine so and I haven't had wheat in a very long time so I don't know if maybe my allergy has gotten a little bit better I'm still waiting for something to happen and just increasing your anxiety you're waiting for it to happen yes and I keep breaking out in hives too because of the anxiety I'm so sorry but that's yeah that would probably break my concentration okay
00:43:34 And, yes, Ms.
00:43:35 Choritsky.
00:43:36 Ms.
00:43:36 Choritsky.
00:43:37 I have some family international travel planned, but the judge... On Saturday, yes.
00:43:42 Yeah, the judge addressed that we'd probably be done by then.
00:43:44 Yes.
00:43:45 We are going to make sure that you're not affected.
00:43:47 Okay, thank you.
00:43:48 Outside of that, anything else?
00:43:51 To the question about receipts and things?
00:43:53 Yes.
00:43:55 I am not in charge of money and receipts at my job.
00:43:59 However, I ask permission and then I...
00:44:03 Submit receipts to our money person for that service.
00:44:09 And what industry are you in?
00:44:11 I am a home economics teacher, so I'm constantly buying food for cooking with students and then sewing supplies.
00:44:21 And is this a public school or private school?
00:44:22 Public school.
00:44:24 So you're grossly underfunded.
00:44:25 Yes.
00:44:28 I didn't know that home economics was still a viable course.
00:44:35 That's fantastic.
00:44:41 That's where I learned how to sew, actually.
00:44:44 That's fantastic.
00:44:45 Anyone else that has anything at all in their lives which would divert your attention for the next five, six, maybe seven days?
00:44:56 I can't stress enough how important this
00:44:59 Mr. Kroenke and to us and how much we really need you to be at your best to pay attention and be able to absorb this information.
00:45:11 Can you all, yes?
00:45:12 If this passes the 16th, I probably will not be able to show in the 16th.
00:45:19 I don't have childcare.
00:45:22 My kids teacher will be out on vacation from the 16th to the 22nd.
00:45:27 Okay, so you are, your child will be out and about like Ms.
00:45:32 Reeves goats without care.
00:45:39 Anyone else?
00:45:41 Okay, so outside of the people that we just spoke with, can you all assure me that you're going to give this case 100% of your attention while we're in traffic?
00:45:55 That's up to the judge.
00:45:58 I don't supply it, but you can bring it.
00:46:01 Very good.
00:46:02 Thank you very much for your time.
00:46:04 Thank you, Mr. Brzezinski.
00:46:05 Mr. Campion.
00:46:05 Thank you.
00:46:10 Good morning.
00:46:10 This is my opportunity.
00:46:11 I won't repeat things that have already been covered.
00:46:13 I approached this a little differently, and I'd like to hear from all of you in order, so you'll know as the microphone's being passed that you're going to have a chance to talk to me.
00:46:22 I'll ask you about some of the things you've already commented on.
00:46:24 I'll ask you about some new things.
00:46:26 And as Mr. Brzezinski said earlier,
00:46:28 I'll give you a chance at the end to address any issues that come up if any of your fellow fellow jurors say something that you think is worth commenting on or something that you think about it's important that we hear from you and I think you have some idea about some of the themes and things that are going to be addressed in this case so why don't we start in the back we'll just make it this hedge start on the microphone if you would pass it back please
00:46:54 Good morning.
00:46:55 Good morning.
00:46:55 How are you?
00:46:56 I'm good.
00:46:56 How are you?
00:46:57 I'm good.
00:46:58 So tell me what you're thinking so far.
00:46:59 I'm excited to be here.
00:47:03 I got called for jury duty once when I was 18 and never made it out of the assembly room.
00:47:10 So I like to ask your potential jurors on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being the least excited, 10 being the most excited, how excited are you?
00:47:18 Let's give it like a solid six.
00:47:20 You look like an eight or nine to me, but okay.
00:47:22 Well, it's getting exciting.
00:47:24 We'll see how it goes.
00:47:25 Mr. Brzezinski talked about how legal shows that are on television, they have to condense.
00:47:29 What we're going to try to do in five or six days, they've got to condense that into an hour, half an hour.
00:47:34 There'll be some moments where you wonder why it's so detail-oriented, but ultimately what we're going to do is present a bunch of evidence to you and we'll comment on what we think is important, what isn't, and then you've got to decide what is important and what the decision is.
00:47:49 What are your expectations for evidence?
00:47:52 And I know that's kind of a loaded question, but what do you expect to see and hear and observe during this trial?
00:47:58 Based on what you've talked about already, I'd expect some kind of maybe accounting paperwork, receipts maybe, perhaps a witness.
00:48:09 I don't know what to expect.
00:48:10 I don't know anything about mining.
00:48:14 Okay, if you saw photographs of the mine location, would that be something you might expect to see?
00:48:20 Sure, yeah, to give us an idea of what we're thinking about, if that's relevant to the issue at hand.
00:48:26 And you work as a paralegal.
00:48:29 I do, yes.
00:48:30 What type of work do you do?
00:48:31 It's an immigration law firm.
00:48:33 All right.
00:48:33 Do you find yourself in trials or...
00:48:37 are arbitration hearings or administrative hearings?
00:48:41 Not so much.
00:48:42 There is no immigration court here in Alaska.
00:48:45 So we are the Alaska docket of the Portland Immigration Court.
00:48:49 So all of our stuff is virtual.
00:48:51 So we do have, the lawyer does have hearings, but it's all in our conference room.
00:48:54 So very little in-person stuff.
00:48:58 And I think it was Ms.
00:48:58 Wright that talked about how
00:49:00 is part of an audio recording of 20-8622
00:49:26 collecting all of the receipts and processing reimbursements and that kind of stuff.
00:49:29 So I have some experience there, but not recently.
00:49:34 So you said you don't know much about gold mining.
00:49:38 Obviously, there's a wide range of gold mining operations.
00:49:40 There are big corporate international corporations that are involved in gold mining, and then there's small gold miners like Mr. Elliott that are involved.
00:49:47 What do you think a small remote gold miner in Alaska might have for office support?
00:49:54 I'm imagining like a really rusty Connex or something.
00:49:59 Basic, I would imagine a basic, I don't know.
00:50:05 I honestly don't, I don't know.
00:50:07 I don't expect a lot.
00:50:09 Cool.
00:50:09 Well, I think that's an image that we can work with and we'll, like I said, we'll have some photos to show you.
00:50:14 Thank you.
00:50:14 Please hand the microphone to your left to Ms.
00:50:16 Frazier.
00:50:18 How are you?
00:50:19 Good morning.
00:50:19 Good morning.
00:50:20 So you work for the state of Alaska.
00:50:23 And I'm sorry, just say yes or no.
00:50:25 Yes.
00:50:25 Thanks.
00:50:26 And you've worked in, it's for the Department of Health?
00:50:29 Yes.
00:50:29 How long have you done that work?
00:50:32 Since February 14th, 15th.
00:50:34 Of this year?
00:50:35 Yeah.
00:50:35 Relatively new.
00:50:36 Yes.
00:50:37 Okay, what did you do before?
00:50:38 Matsu Health Foundation.
00:50:40 Similar type of work?
00:50:42 No.
00:50:43 What did you do there?
00:50:44 I was the, I guess, not really a receptionist.
00:50:51 Oh, yeah.
00:50:52 Okay, so I work downstairs.
00:50:54 I basically would navigate people to the proper offices, but mostly my function was assisting three different groups of people.
00:51:04 It was the Matsu Health Foundation, ROC, which is Raising Our Children with Kindness, and Connect Matsu.
00:51:12 I would order catering and facilitate the conference rooms for each day.
00:51:21 From your question, it looks like you may have lived in the valley before you negative Okay, you served you said on a Palmer grand jury in 1992 Right about there.
00:51:29 Yeah, were you living in Palmer at the time?
00:51:31 I lived in was so okay That was a grand jury not a trial correct.
00:51:36 All right, and how was that experience for you?
00:51:39 I served as deputy foreman and Basically We just deliberated on a
00:51:48 Serial murder case and then we had to bring the verdict and I get to be the one to tell the person I guess Okay What our verdict was you seem like you feel you're feeling okay with serving on this jury.
00:52:01 Oh, yeah, fine Is there anything that's come up so far you think you should comment or or elaborate on not at all?
00:52:07 All right.
00:52:08 Thank you.
00:52:08 Please hand the microphone to your left to mr. Susie Yes, mr. Shrug.
00:52:12 He's a tall.
00:52:12 He's a tall guy You don't have to sit down.
00:52:15 That's fine.
00:52:16 How are you feeling about serving?
00:52:17 Good.
00:52:20 I just recalled that I had also served on Grand Jury, but this was years ago.
00:52:26 I think it was just a day thing.
00:52:29 Okay.
00:52:29 I had to decide whether cases should be brought, I guess, or whatever, or add to that.
00:52:35 I did get called for jury duty a few years back, but I did not actually serve.
00:52:42 I was excused for I can't remember what reason.
00:52:45 They didn't like me.
00:52:45 Yeah.
00:52:47 The work that you do, I heard your description, I understand you're involved in managing scheduling and overseeing billing and so forth.
00:52:54 What are the types of charters that your company provides?
00:52:59 mostly we work with large corporations that are moving workers around and whether it be for the fishing industry for the military long-range radar sites stuff like that there's most most of its corporate client there's a small faction that is private okay in your work have you interacted or touched on
00:53:25 remote bush pilot is the sort of that that industry which is maybe a little separate or different from your industry yeah it's I mean that's that's smaller than what we deal with but you know some of the pilots that I work with our part-time bush bush operators as well yeah what I expect you'll hear during this trial is that mr. Elliott mr. cranky are both pilots they and they got themselves out to Dan Creek in the summer of 2020
00:53:56 And so you should hear some, there'll be some evidence about flights and aviation and things like that.
00:54:02 But from your perspective and what you know, are remote pilots, are they generally, do they have sophisticated offices to support their logistics in the manner that your company has?
00:54:15 No.
00:54:16 Why not?
00:54:17 I mean, it's the size of the operator.
00:54:19 It's just you work out of your home or your kitchen or wherever, you know.
00:54:25 you you ever watch Gold Rush I actually have seen I think I don't know if it was that show but I've seen I've watched some some gold mining shows but it was a while back what do you recall about those shows what struck you if anything
00:54:38 Well, I think they were all, whatever I was watching was a reality show, and so it was mostly focused on the drama.
00:54:48 Yeah, well, there may be some drama here in this case.
00:54:51 I mean, with regard to the mining itself, what, if anything, do you observe or recall about the mining operations?
00:55:03 remote just you know hard to get materials and stuff out there and struggles with breaking equipment and stuff like that if you have a sense did you have a sense of what might make someone successful in that environment no but I imagine perseverance has a lot to do with it yeah right
00:55:30 Okay.
00:55:30 Well, I've taken enough of your time.
00:55:31 I'll ask you to pass the microphone to your left to Ms.
00:55:33 Nelson.
00:55:34 Good morning.
00:55:35 Hello.
00:55:35 How are you?
00:55:36 I'm well.
00:55:37 Well, good.
00:55:38 And on that scale of 1 to 10, how do you feel about serving?
00:55:41 I'm at a 5.
00:55:42 A 5.
00:55:42 Okay.
00:55:43 Well, that's about right.
00:55:43 You don't want anyone to be a 1 or a 10, so 5 is about right, and you're smiling.
00:55:48 Let me ask you a little bit, where are you from originally?
00:55:52 It wasn't on your questionnaire.
00:55:53 I was born and raised in Sitka.
00:55:55 Sitka, Alaska.
00:55:56 Okay.
00:55:56 Okay.
00:55:57 And you've been in this community for approximately 30 years?
00:55:59 30 years.
00:56:01 In your younger life, was your family or were you involved in fishing at all?
00:56:07 Maybe some subsistence.
00:56:10 We had a family fish wheel up on the Yukon.
00:56:14 Okay.
00:56:16 And was it generally successful?
00:56:19 Were you able to, you know, fish and
00:56:26 What made your family successful when it came to the fish wheel or came to subsistence activities?
00:56:32 I think knowledge of where to fish and having good equipment.
00:56:40 Where did the knowledge come from?
00:56:41 Was there a book or were there maps or was it just... It was just passed down.
00:56:45 Hard-earned or hard-learned knowledge?
00:56:49 Yes.
00:56:51 And then in your time in Alaska, have you ever interacted with the mining industry, whether it be gold or otherwise?
00:56:57 Has that been a part of your life at all?
00:56:59 No, I can't recall.
00:57:01 I haven't had any interaction.
00:57:06 Do you think there are a lot of folks gold mining in Alaska?
00:57:09 Do you have a sense of that?
00:57:11 Not really.
00:57:12 I haven't thought much about it until now.
00:57:14 Okay.
00:57:15 Well, we're going to immerse you in gold mining for the next week.
00:57:18 Is there anything else that we've talked about so far that you think you should comment on?
00:57:23 I don't have any other input.
00:57:25 Okay.
00:57:26 I'm just going to ask you to pass the microphone to Ms.
00:57:28 Trawicki, please.
00:57:28 Hi.
00:57:34 Hi.
00:57:34 How are you feeling?
00:57:35 Just fine.
00:57:36 Good.
00:57:37 A home economics teacher.
00:57:38 Are you a middle school or high school teacher?
00:57:39 Middle school.
00:57:40 Can I ask what middle school?
00:57:42 Mears.
00:57:42 Oh, you might have my daughter this year.
00:57:44 She signed up for home economics.
00:57:46 So I want to ask you briefly about your husband, the work that he does.
00:57:51 Can you just talk about that generally so I have a sense of what that is?
00:57:56 He is a hydrologist by trade.
00:57:59 He became a hydrology manager and supervises other hydrologists for the Fish and Wildlife Service, which is Department of the Interior.
00:58:10 He's worked for the Anchorage office doing this work for 34 years, and he retires at the end of the year.
00:58:17 So he's very excited about that.
00:58:19 And are you going to follow him in retirement soon?
00:58:22 I would like to teach for at least two or three more school years and see how I feel, but I've taught in Anchorage School District for 26 years.
00:58:33 Has your husband's work, has he been in the Wrangell-St.
00:58:36 Elias National Park area or in that region of the state?
00:58:40 His territory is all of the federally navigable waters within the state of Alaska, so he does not
00:58:49 cover any waters that are on state lands only federal lands and only freshwater but within that parameter he works on all 17 refuges okay do you recall whether his work has ever had him in that in that part of the state whether it be near McCarthy or Wrangell St.
00:59:08 Elias National Park do you recall that yes he's been in every national park in the state his job is primarily to determine
00:59:19 if there is enough water quantity and if the water quality is met for the fish and wildlife.
00:59:26 And so then they do a lot of water sampling and testing.
00:59:32 And then they go to court and determine what water needs to be set aside for fish and wildlife prior to BLM being able to determine what excess water is then available for mining and other users.
00:59:49 Okay.
00:59:50 I think what you'll hear during this case is Mr. Elliott's been involved in gold mining in the Wrangell St.
00:59:56 Elias National Park for nearly 40 years or more.
00:59:59 And I think that may surprise some folks that, wait, there's actual gold mining going on in National Park.
01:00:03 So you may find that interesting.
01:00:05 Is there anything that we've talked about so far that you think you should comment on?
01:00:09 No.
01:00:10 If you would please hand the microphone to your left, Ms.
01:00:12 Wright.
01:00:13 Good morning.
01:00:14 Good morning.
01:00:15 How are you?
01:00:16 So, Alaska Public Media advertising?
01:00:19 Yeah.
01:00:20 How long have you done that?
01:00:21 Well, at Alaska Public Media, I've been there just a year and a half.
01:00:25 Have you been in advertising through your career?
01:00:27 Right.
01:00:27 I worked with KTVA, Channel 11, the CBS affiliate.
01:00:31 It was sold and KTVA went away.
01:00:35 It did.
01:00:35 It was a big push about 10 years ago, right?
01:00:38 12 years ago?
01:00:40 Seth Kroenke v Treasure
01:00:57 I don't really know much about mining and things like that.
01:01:00 Maybe some things you see on TV.
01:01:03 I don't watch a lot of TV even though I sell it.
01:01:07 My husband's watched some of the gold mining shows, the reality shows, so I'll come into the room and that's on and I kind of get bored with it.
01:01:15 What's boring about it?
01:01:16 Is it the drama like Mr. Soucy said or the mining?
01:01:19 I don't know.
01:01:22 It's just not my kind of entertainment.
01:01:24 I'd rather be outside gardening or doing something else.
01:01:28 That's all right.
01:01:28 We give each other their space to watch the shows they enjoy.
01:01:33 What do you think about Mr. Brzezinski spent a lot of time talking about receipts and I think one of the things that will be an issue here is whether or not there are receipts to support what was spent in 2020.
01:01:44 What do you think a small remote gold mining operation might have in terms of record keeping?
01:01:51 Well, I guess
01:01:52 I'll learn more, but a small would say they probably do the counting works themselves.
01:01:59 Okay.
01:02:00 All right.
01:02:01 I have a limited amount of time, and we want to be efficient, so I'm going to ask you to pass the microphone to Ms.
01:02:04 Belly.
01:02:07 Now, you don't look like a 6 or 7 or 8.
01:02:09 You look like a 3 or 4.
01:02:10 How do you feel about serving?
01:02:13 I'll say 6.
01:02:14 6.
01:02:15 Okay.
01:02:15 Well, good.
01:02:15 I misjudged that.
01:02:17 What are your thoughts about what we've discussed so far?
01:02:20 It sounds like everybody has experience enough to participate in this case.
01:02:27 I don't feel like I have any knowledge about mining or anything related to flying or anything like that.
01:02:39 So I don't know if I'm going to be useful for this case.
01:02:43 Well, there's no qualifications other than you're here and you're able to participate meaningfully, as Mr. Brzezinski said.
01:02:50 Your husband works as a driller at Geotech?
01:02:52 That is correct.
01:02:53 Where is that work that he does?
01:02:57 Is it on the slope?
01:02:58 He flies everywhere to do the job.
01:03:03 What type of drilling is he doing?
01:03:05 Or for what industry is he supporting?
01:03:09 It's not mining.
01:03:09 Not mining.
01:03:10 No.
01:03:11 It is to...
01:03:13 get information about the samples from the ground if it is contaminated or not and pass it in to the geologist I see and that's the process that he does so is a lot of his work take him away from home oftentimes yes during the summertime yes and does he complain to you that equipment doesn't work when he's out at some of the remote sites oh yes what does he say
01:03:42 Maybe he uses colorful language, but is it frustrating for him that his equipment sometimes doesn't work or can't get repaired?
01:03:49 Correct.
01:03:49 No, they get it repaired.
01:03:51 It's just the time that it takes to get the parts on time to continue the process for the job.
01:03:58 Does that delay him getting his job done?
01:04:00 Of course.
01:04:01 That costs money to the client and to the company that he works for.
01:04:05 Right.
01:04:06 Okay.
01:04:07 Is there anything else that's come up that you think you should comment on?
01:04:12 Okay, thank you.
01:04:12 Please hand the microphone to your left to Mr. Schrage.
01:04:14 Hi.
01:04:16 How's it going?
01:04:17 Good.
01:04:17 And you work for the family business, right?
01:04:19 Yes.
01:04:19 And how long have you been working there?
01:04:21 I'd say five years now.
01:04:24 Five years, okay.
01:04:25 So you're full-time there?
01:04:27 Yes, in the summers I'm full-time.
01:04:29 I go to school at UAA.
01:04:30 Okay, you're still a student.
01:04:31 What are you taking up there?
01:04:32 Business management.
01:04:33 Are you interested in joining the family business eventually?
01:04:35 Yeah.
01:04:36 Okay.
01:04:38 And you said your uncle's
01:04:41 Judge Nesbitt, is that right?
01:04:43 Yeah.
01:04:43 How are you related to him?
01:04:45 My mom's brother.
01:04:48 Your mom's brother is Judge Nesbitt?
01:04:49 Yes.
01:04:50 Is there anything about your relationship with Uncle Dave that would impact your ability to be a juror here?
01:04:54 No.
01:04:55 Okay.
01:04:56 Do you see him regularly?
01:04:58 Family gatherings.
01:04:59 Does he talk about trials or the work that he does?
01:05:02 Mostly with my mom.
01:05:03 Okay.
01:05:03 So you
01:05:08 You talked about your dad flying a lot and you said you do a lot of camping.
01:05:11 Is that right?
01:05:12 Yeah.
01:05:12 Remote camping or do you go car camping?
01:05:14 How do you do that?
01:05:15 It depends on what we're doing.
01:05:16 Sometimes go on a hike and go find somewhere random or get dropped off in the plane.
01:05:21 Okay.
01:05:22 You guys have an RV or have you had an RV?
01:05:24 I don't know.
01:05:25 Okay.
01:05:28 When you go camping remotely like that, you usually don't have to pay or you don't have to get a permit, right?
01:05:32 No.
01:05:33 Have you paid for camping in the past?
01:05:35 No.
01:05:35 Okay.
01:05:38 All right.
01:05:39 You're involved in construction essentially, right?
01:05:42 Yes.
01:05:42 And I know you're in school and you're not running the business yet, but have you ever been aware of your company, your family's company, getting a lien against any of the customers that they've done work for?
01:05:56 Somewhat, yeah.
01:05:57 What do you think a lien is or what do you know or understand it to be?
01:06:01 I don't know the term, but I'm slightly involved.
01:06:09 Okay, so you haven't been involved in it directly yet?
01:06:11 Yeah.
01:06:11 Okay, that's probably one of the things you'll be learning in school.
01:06:14 Is there anything else we've talked about you think you should comment on?
01:06:17 Not particularly, no.
01:06:19 Okay, I'm running out of time, so I'm going to ask you to pass the microphone to your left to Ms.
01:06:23 Reeves, who's thinking about her goats right now, aren't you?
01:06:26 Are you feeling distracted?
01:06:28 Yeah.
01:06:28 Okay.
01:06:29 I don't want to belabor that.
01:06:31 That'll be something we'll have to take up.
01:06:32 But is there anything else that we haven't asked you about that you think you should comment on?
01:06:37 No.
01:06:38 Okay.
01:06:39 All right.
01:06:39 In the interest of time, if you could hand the microphone to Ms.
01:06:41 Hinyosa.
01:06:44 How are you feeling now?
01:06:46 I'm okay.
01:06:46 Is there anything that we haven't talked about yet you think you should comment on?
01:06:50 No.
01:06:51 You've had a chance to talk quite a bit.
01:06:54 I don't want to belabor this, but...
01:06:56 I think we have a good sense of the concerns that you have, and we'll take those up after we're done with this.
01:07:00 So please hand the microphone to your left.
01:07:03 Mr. Holub, how are you feeling?
01:07:04 Pretty good, sir.
01:07:05 You seem like you're engaged.
01:07:07 Decently so, yeah.
01:07:08 Well, you're willing to do this?
01:07:10 Absolutely.
01:07:11 What are your thoughts on what you've heard so far?
01:07:13 Definitely not a lot of knowledge on the topic at hand.
01:07:17 Yeah, just kind of embracing the experience of the first time being on a jury.
01:07:20 Okay.
01:07:21 You heard, I think it was this...
01:07:24 Ted talked about, oh, she expects to hear from witnesses.
01:07:27 Do you expect to hear from witnesses?
01:07:29 Correct.
01:07:30 So you're in the Air Force.
01:07:31 Are you a non-commissioned officer yet?
01:07:34 No, sir.
01:07:35 so you haven't sat on any boards or any hearings or anything like that yet no sir have you ever been involved in that as a witness or otherwise no sir okay well one of the things that jurors have to do that all of you if you serve will have to do is you have to judge credibility of witnesses and one of the fortunate things is Judge Matthews will give you an instruction I think you'll actually give it to you today to give you a preview and then at the end you'll get the same instruction and it the instruction has
01:08:01 addresses how do you judge a credibility of a witness and the first thing it says is you look at the way in which the witness testifies but then there are other factors as well and so you know if you're feeling like geez I don't know how I don't have a lot of tools to figure out how to do my job the judge is going to give you those through the instructions including and especially judging credibility witnesses with all that I've just said how are you going to know if someone's telling the truth to you or not there's got to be a certain amount of baseline trust with them taking an oath
01:08:33 And you don't have all the weight on your shoulders.
01:08:45 You've got 11 or 13 other jurors that are going to be there, and they're going to be making their own observations, and the deliberative process is sort of meant to figure out, okay, what do we all think about each of the witnesses?
01:08:54 So it sounds like you're comfortable with this process.
01:08:57 Yes, sir.
01:08:57 Please hand the microphone to your left to Ms.
01:08:59 Verbrugge.
01:09:01 So your husband is a regular witness?
01:09:05 In driving Under the Influence of Drug Cases Only.
01:09:08 Does he work for the state crime lab?
01:09:10 No, but he benefits them.
01:09:12 He's a partner of theirs.
01:09:13 He works for the state, actually the state public health lab.
01:09:17 Okay, okay.
01:09:19 Is there anything that we've talked about so far that you want to comment on?
01:09:23 Well, I think that you should know that I have prior work engagement on mining stuff.
01:09:29 Oh, yeah.
01:09:30 Okay.
01:09:31 So tell me about that.
01:09:31 Tell us about that.
01:09:32 All right.
01:09:32 So I'm an environmental toxicologist.
01:09:34 So what I do is I look at contaminants in the environment and whether they're going to possibly cause risk to humans or the environment.
01:09:43 I used to work for the U.S.
01:09:44 Fish and Wildlife Service and be in a program where
01:09:50 We were involved as cooperating agencies on environmental impact statements that were developed for huge proposed mines, including Pebble, Donlin, and Chuitna.
01:09:59 So I'm familiar with, and my contribution was always related to potential contaminant concerns.
01:10:07 Okay.
01:10:08 So it's interesting.
01:10:10 Jurors bring their own knowledge and experience to this process, and that's part of the value of this.
01:10:15 But are you comfortable with the idea that you can
01:10:18 RELY UPON THE JUDGE'S INSTRUCTION AND BE GUIDED BY THE EVIDENCE AND NOT NECESSARILY BECOME YOUR OWN EXPERT WITNESS IN THE DELIBERATIVE PROCESS.
01:10:26 ABSOLUTELY.
01:10:27 I MEAN, AS A SCIENTIST, WE'RE TRAINED TO NOT HAVE BIAS.
01:10:32 OKAY.
01:10:34 AND IN YOUR WORK, AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT, AS AN ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENTIST, DO YOU HAVE ANY ANIMOSITY OR ANY STRONG NEGATIVE FEELINGS ABOUT THE MINING INDUSTRY IN ALASKA OR OTHERWISE?
01:10:48 My neighbor is a geologist and she used to work in mining.
01:10:53 We've had a lot of conversations.
01:10:55 What can't be grown must be mined.
01:10:58 We need metals.
01:11:00 It's just a matter of doing it in an environmentally responsible way.
01:11:03 Are you a homeowner?
01:11:05 Yes.
01:11:05 Have you ever had a plumber or a technician of some sort come to the house to do work?
01:11:10 Of course.
01:11:12 When that happens, do you
01:11:15 Enter into a formal contract where you expressly agree to the terms, usually?
01:11:19 Absolutely, yeah.
01:11:20 Do you write that contract yourself, generally?
01:11:23 Usually they write it.
01:11:25 Right, and you sign it?
01:11:26 Yeah.
01:11:27 Do you feel like when you sign those contracts that your rights are protected?
01:11:32 It should be a two-way street.
01:11:33 Okay.
01:11:35 All right, I'm running out of time, so I'm going to ask you to pass the microphone to Ms.
01:11:37 McGinty.
01:11:39 Are you thinking about childcare?
01:11:41 Yeah.
01:11:42 You are?
01:11:42 Yeah.
01:11:43 You kids are two and three?
01:11:45 And so they obviously are not allowed to be on their own.
01:11:47 No.
01:11:48 And if you don't have childcare, then are you home from work?
01:11:53 I am.
01:11:54 So when I don't have somebody to watch them, I basically have to take off for work just to take care of them.
01:12:02 And that's what you're expecting next week?
01:12:03 Yes.
01:12:04 And so the 16th would be next Tuesday.
01:12:06 Tuesday.
01:12:07 Okay.
01:12:08 All right.
01:12:08 Well, we've got that information.
01:12:09 We'll discuss it and obviously Judge Matthews will make the decision.
01:12:13 With regard to what we've discussed, either myself or Mr. Brzezinski, is there anything that you think you should comment on that has come up?
01:12:18 No.
01:12:21 Okay.
01:12:22 For everyone, this is my last opportunity to seek any comments from you.
01:12:26 Is there anything else that's come up that you think you should comment on or address before I sit down?
01:12:30 It's my last time to talk to you.
01:12:33 All right.
01:12:34 Like Mr. Kroenke, Mr. Elliott takes this very seriously.
01:12:37 This is very important to him, and I appreciate your time and attention.
01:12:42 So ladies and gentlemen, we're going to give the lawyers a chance to take a look at what we've talked about so far this morning.
01:12:49 We're going to take a short break for about 10 minutes and then we'll bring you back in and let you know who gets to go home and who's going to be staying.
01:13:11 Thanks for your patience in the process.
01:13:14 You'll find restrooms out in the hallway.
01:13:17 Please don't leave the floor.
01:13:19 And we'll pick you up in about 10 minutes.
01:13:21 Yes, ma'am.
01:13:24 Do you have a question?
01:13:29 Yeah.
01:13:31 Is it a private question or one?
01:13:34 Well, I've been sitting here.
01:13:36 My arm's been falling asleep.
01:13:39 Okay.
01:13:40 I just thought about this.
01:13:41 I probably should go get this looked at.
01:13:44 I'm not trying to get out.
01:13:45 I'm just saying.
01:13:46 This just started to happen in the last couple of days, and I know I've been having shoulder issues.
01:13:51 But sitting here the whole time, I've been going like this and going, I should probably get this looked at.
01:14:00 Okay.
01:14:01 Is it a pain, or has it just started while you've been sitting here?
01:14:04 No.
01:14:05 The falling asleep part is getting worse, but
01:14:10 Is it something that is going to interfere with your concentration?
01:14:19 Are you having difficulty tracking?
01:14:38 Let me discuss with the lawyers briefly if you would stick around at least for a little bit and come back in.
01:14:44 Anything else you want to tell me about it?
01:14:48 I'm glad you raised it.
01:14:49 Thank you for telling me.
01:15:15 Okay, perspective jurors are now out.
01:15:18 Please be seated, folks.
01:15:19 Madam Clerk, do you have a preempt sheet for each side?
01:15:24 So this will be time for peremptory challenges.
01:15:27 Any cause challenges that we need to take up before we get to that?
01:15:32 Your Honor, we have several.
01:15:35 I think we could start with juror number one.
01:15:39 She seems to have medical issues in terms of anxiety and brain fog, and I just don't think she can give this case the attention it deserves.
01:15:53 Mr. Campion, your position on that?
01:15:56 I would just add that her body language also reveals to me and probably to everyone that she's very uncomfortable, and I have concerns that she's going to be able to concentrate.
01:16:05 Okay, so no disagreement.
01:16:07 No disagreement.
01:16:07 Thank you.
01:16:08 All right.
01:16:09 I'll go ahead and dismiss juror number one then for cause.
01:16:12 Okay.
01:16:15 Juror number four, Ms.
01:16:16 McGinty, due to the child care issue in the 16th.
01:16:20 Any disagreement, Mr. Campion?
01:16:21 No, Your Honor.
01:16:22 We don't want children running around like goats.
01:16:25 Supervised.
01:16:25 Okay.
01:16:27 So Ms.
01:16:27 McGinty will also be dismissed for cause.
01:16:30 Okay.
01:16:32 Juror number nine.
01:16:35 In this case, not child supervision, but animal supervision.
01:16:41 She said she would be distracted and unable to pay attention as she tends to her animals every three or so hours, and given the court's schedule from 8.15 to 2 o'clock until she gets home, it would cause her distress and inconvenience.
01:16:56 Mr. Campion?
01:17:00 All right.
01:17:06 I think her situation is a bit different, but since the parties are in agreement, I agree that she may be distracted.
01:17:12 So I'll dismiss juror number 9, Ms.
01:17:14 Reeves, also for cause.
01:17:16 And that only leaves Ms.
01:17:18 Frazier, juror 12, as we just heard.
01:17:20 I don't have an issue.
01:17:24 Eliminate her of cause.
01:17:27 I don't either, having heard what we just heard.
01:17:29 I think given what she just stated, she's obviously expressing concern about her medical condition.
01:17:34 It sounds to me like that progressed while we were sitting here, and so I'll dismiss number 12 for cause as well.
01:17:43 Anybody else?
01:17:44 Mr. Brzezinski?
01:17:45 No, you're on the second one.
01:17:46 Mr. Campion, anybody on your side?
01:17:48 Not for cause, thank you.
01:17:50 All right.
01:17:55 I'll give you about 10 minutes or so on pre-empts, and then we'll reconnect.
01:18:00 Okay, we'll be in recess.
01:18:01 Thank you.